I did get one anarchy charge, from an elite unit no less.
Edit: I'm unsure about the need or value of limiting the archers to 5 volleys. How would you simulate the Battle of Agincourt with this limitation? The counter to archers is other archers and light cavalry. I never found archers to be that limiting in FOG2 vanilla.
Also having rough terrain be less disruptive for heavy foot seems to give too much advantage to HF and subtract advantage from LF and MF. It lessens the need to account for terrain when arranging troop set up. It seems it would turn any map into plains or agricultural. Again, what would have happened to the English at Agincourt if the French knights had been able to pass through the muddy fields at speed and in good order?
IMO, in all battles except perhaps a meeting engagement or an ambush, the map should be visible before force selection is completed. In ancient battles things generally developed slowly enough for both sides to be able to familiarize themselves with the terrain.
There you have my "devil's advocate" take.😊
Indeed, it feels that aspects like tactical positioning, assigning and use of reserves etc. are more important in this mod. Limited LOS as well as purchasing of units before you actual see the battlefield helps in making the battle more balanced IMO. Limited arrows/slingshots/javelins means that one will have to carefully plan were to use this units. I found cavalry to be quite effective (I was at the receiving end of it) which was usually the case at that period .
I did get one anarchy charge, from an elite unit no less.
Edit: I'm unsure about the need or value of limiting the archers to 5 volleys. How would you simulate the Battle of Agincourt with this limitation? The counter to archers is other archers and light cavalry. I never found archers to be that limiting in FOG2 vanilla.
Also having rough terrain be less disruptive for heavy foot seems to give too much advantage to HF and subtract advantage from LF and MF. It lessens the need to account for terrain when arranging troop set up. It seems it would turn any map into plains or agricultural. Again, what would have happened to the English at Agincourt if the French knights had been able to pass through the muddy fields at speed and in good order?
IMO, in all battles except perhaps a meeting engagement or an ambush, the map should be visible before force selection is completed. In ancient battles things generally developed slowly enough for both sides to be able to familiarize themselves with the terrain.
There you have my "devil's advocate" take.😊
That’s fine. 🙂
The mod (Dark Age Britain and Danelaw) is targeting a limited period and time of warfare: where focus was on heavy foot and shieldwalls clashing. So its mechanics and rules would not fit all ancient and medieval era warfare. This said, the idea of having to select units before seeing the actual terrain is to reflect to a larger extent that you have the units you have and can’t tailor make your army on the exact disposition of the battlefield, just on what is expected of a possible battlefield.
Test battle vs @otosan ended with a Saxon major victory.
Vikings went for quality, whereas Saxons opted for the numbers. When I have managed to turn the right flank of otosan in a couple of turns victory was mine as he was lacking the reserves to plug the gap.
Observations: 1. Flanking attacks are deadly, however less deadly than the vanilla version.
2. Units with both flanks covered, fight considerably better and can stand a chance against opponents of better quality.
3. Skirmishers, given the smaller size of the infantry units, can wreck havoc if left unchecked (5+5 ammo rule make sense, IMO).
4. My units neither ''anarchy charged'' nor refused to attack, maybe because of their ethnicity (Saxons)? and/or because I had them all the time in command.
Having played two games with it, I can say that it is a nice mod which is capturing the early medieval era.
@kronenblatt , FYI
I'm learning a new (or having it reinforced) lesson about in and out of command vis a vis sub generals. I thought in command was proximity based but it only applies to units assigned to sub general at the start. Good practice lesson.
Also, as I faced kronenblatt's archers and crossbowmen, I found myself wondering if the shieldwall in the mod offers any protection against ranged weapons as it does on all the Viking and Saxons TV series. Ragnar Lothbrok and Uthred of Babbenburg certainly profited from it on screen. 😉
@kronenblatt routed my Anglo saxons pretty convincingly. It was good to get a few practice battles in, I feel at least a little prepared for a good campaign.
Thanks
"En cualquier dirección que recorras el alma, nunca tropezarás con sus límites." Sócrates
I'm learning a new (or having it reinforced) lesson about in and out of command vis a vis sub generals. I thought in command was proximity based but it only applies to units assigned to sub general at the start. Good practice lesson.
Same as vanilla. But there are some special rules for generals and command in this mod, such as:
- Generals: Generals can move one square while in combat. (In vanilla, they are stuck with the combatting unit.)
- Rally requires command: Units can only rally while in command. (In vanilla, all units can rally unless below 50% unit strength, but simplistically speaking the probability to rally is higher if a general is assigned to the unit.)
Also, as I faced kronenblatt's archers and crossbowmen, I found myself wondering if the shieldwall in the mod offers any protection against ranged weapons as it does on all the Viking and Saxons TV series. Ragnar Lothbrok and Uthred of Babbenburg certainly profited from it on screen. 😉
No crossbowmen in this mod. Maybe you're thinking about our other game in Medieval, or a combination of the two? 🙂
No crossbowmen in this mod. Maybe you're thinking about our other game in Medieval, or a combination of the two? 🙂
Quite probably😊 Never the less, do you know if the mod provides any additional protection from archers, to infantry formed in a shield wall, over Vanilla?
No crossbowmen in this mod. Maybe you're thinking about our other game in Medieval, or a combination of the two? 🙂
Quite probably😊 Never the less, do you know if the mod provides any additional protection from archers, to infantry formed in a shield wall, over Vanilla?
Not to my knowledge, but you may want to double check the pdf. Please then post your findings here. Thanks.
kronenblatt routed my army for a major victory. Thanks for the battle. On to the campaign.
OK, guys! So it seems that everyone has concluded their trial games? And it all worked well, mechanics wise that is, even though I guess we all learned valuable lessons about the mod? 😎 I did, at least. @cargol @chiquichops @otosan
=> So now on to the real campaign!
As mentioned, before, I strongly recommend that you all (including myself) again read the pdf [LINK], as the mod makes many gameplay, and not just aesthetic, changes. At least if you want your kingdoms to thrive. 🙂 Also worthwhile to read through the campaign rules [LINK] in this thread.
The short list of important things to keep in mind though are the following:
- Anarchy and refusal charge: Units have a chance to anarchy charge (i.e., charge at its own initiative) and refuse charge based on various conditions.
- Shieldwalls: Certain unit types (offensive/defensive spearmen, armoured heavy weapon, armoured impact foot) get an adjacency bonus to PoA and CT checks, and defense against 90 degree flank attacks, if in shieldwall (adjacent to units of a similar type, see the Dark Ages Britain Mod page on the Slitherine forum [LINK] for a detailed description of this with pictures).
- Rebalancing: Some unit capabilities/POAs are rebalanced around anarchy, shield wall and other rules changes, including edits to warband Deep Impact, Light Spear (infantry and cavalry), Lancers and Heavy Weapon.
- Limited ammo: Ranged units can run out of ammo (5 full, then 5 half effect shots, then out of ammo) but can also melee a bit more.
- Bows: Bow units, both Light Archers and Bowmen, can shoot over adjacent, same height, allied non-light infantry units that are not in combat.
- No free generals: All generals (aside from the C-in-C) must be purchased.
- Generals: Generals can move one square while in combat.
- Rally requires command: Units can only rally while in command.
- Combat speed resolution: Non-light infantry combat is somewhat slowed down, and cavalry melee is sped up.
- Cavalry fallback: Cavalry can fall back further.
- Cavalry ZoC loss: Cavalry enable loss of secondary ZoC of non-light infantry that they charge (even if falling back after charge).
- Shorter LoS: Decreased line of sight by half, i.e., to 10 tiles (from 20 in vanilla).
- Less disordering: Heavy Foot are only slightly disordered in rough terrain.
- ... and more changes besides those, but the above list should get you started.
So we're up for attack declarations in our very first round, in the first decade of the tenth century AD (...). Order of Attackers as follows:
- @chiquichops (I love your new avatar btw! 👍 What does it portray?)
- @cargol
- @otosan
- @kronenblatt
(Please note that I've made adjustments to the map, i.e., created a border between Lindsey and East Anglia to allow for more attack possibilities.)
Instructions
- The Attacker announces an attack upon another player (the "Defender"), from one of his earldoms ("Attacker Earldom") upon a neighbouring earldom of the other player ("Defender Earldom").
- The Attacker Earldom and the Defender Earldom constitute the "Earldoms-at-Stake" for that particular attack.
- The attack announcement is made in a post in the campaign's thread on the forum, also specifying which allies are used by the Attacker.
Limitations
- No further attacks are during this round allowed to be made upon or from any of these two Earldoms-at-Stake.
- No further attacks are during this round allowed to be made upon any other of the earldoms of the Defender.
- The Defender is not allowed to attack the Attacker during this round.
I will attack from Wessex into South Anglia using Brythonic allies. @cargol I think you set up.
Ps. The avatar is a gold Roman era coin found in England, I saw a similar one in Colchester Castle museum recently. I'll do a post on it soon, very cool place to visit.
"En cualquier dirección que recorras el alma, nunca tropezarás con sus límites." Sócrates
@cargol My mistake. I'll set up once you've specified your allies (which I suppose can only be Viking?)
"En cualquier dirección que recorras el alma, nunca tropezarás con sus límites." Sócrates
@cargol My mistake. I'll set up once you've specified your allies (which I suppose can only be Viking?)
That’s correct => only Vikings available as allies in this battle, as “The Defender selects allies available from among the cultures in and bordering the Defender Earldom.”
In which case, @cargol , I'll set it up.
Password:FGM1
"En cualquier dirección que recorras el alma, nunca tropezarás con sus límites." Sócrates
Attacks
- Chiquichops (Anglo-Saxon with Brythonic allies) attacks Cargol (Anglo-Saxon with Viking allies) in South Anglia from Wessex.
- Cargol...
- Otosan...
- kronenblatt...
You're next, @cargol.
The avatar is a gold Roman era coin found in England, I saw a similar one in Colchester Castle museum recently. I'll do a post on it soon, very cool place to visit.
Very nice!